Leaf Sprung Land Rover Forum

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Hi All,
Got a bit of a dilemma. For about a year I have had quite bad clutch
judder and sometimes when cold a slight squeal from the release barring.
The other problem is that I have to double de clutch on 3rd and 4th gears, other than having to do that It changes very smooth. When I changed the gearbox oil a few months ago, along with old oil I had the added collection
of syncro clips.( Chewed up ). Now my problem is do I take it to a garage
to have the clutch done and live with the gearbox. I think the gearbox has to come out for the release barring, so do I get the gearbox looked at the same time.
Money and time is quite tight, so do I try and do it myself for the next few months? Could anyone tell me what a garage may charge for just the clutch
to be done and how much extra to fix the gearbox. What amount of
hours would it be for the clutch and how many hours to replace a gear box.
I am a head gasket man myself and have never tackled a clutch or gearbox.
Any help please, thanks, Jeff
P.S series 3 1981 2.25

hallii · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject:

The gearbox has to come out, and while it's out you might as well change the release bearing, clutch complete and have a look at the oil seals at the same time.

Removing the gearbox is not that hard, remove the seat box, prop shaft/handbrake etc and undo all the nuts and bolts and slide the gearbox back using a hoist of some sort. You can fit a length of timber across the top of the doors and hang a hoist off that then slide the gearbox out of the door on a plank. It will be lighter if the transfer box is removed first.

You might like to do this under cover now as the weather is a bit wet and windy.

Parts are not that expensive and the synchro clips (if they are what I think they are, flat bits of spring steel?) can be done by simply removing the top of the gearbox.

For a first time I would guess maybe two days to do the job. Lots of people on here can do it in 5 minutes or less Shocked

I would expect a garage to charge about £400 labour plus parts about £150. You can buy the parts for a lot less than this but they will charge top dollar of course.

Good luck

Geoff
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1955 S1 86"

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Thanks Geoff,
I think the garage Idea may be best, as the weather is now
starting to get worse. There is an independent L/R garage near me he has
a lot of old series one's outside, so I just need to find out how much.
Thank you once again for your advice.
Jeff

climbingchris · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject:

Do it your self, gearbox out one weekend, have a poke about at it (it's not hard to take the bell housing off and the 3rd/4th syncro unit is about the first thing you find inside. Clutch is fairly straight forward to do too, and put it back together the next.

If you were nearer to me I'd come and give you a hand, I'm sure htere are others closer to you who'd be willing to help.

have a look at this and then have a think about it.

If you do go for it, I'd suggest getting all new fixings for the seatbox and the outer edges of the floors, makes it soooo much easier and quicker to put back together again.
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Phil Gregson; the 5th Emergency Service et La Gayer de tout Les Gayeurs.

www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php

LAST FEW FORUM STICKERS STILL AVAILABLE - Vinny has them - All Gone

Devil#20 · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject:

Chris. What do you think is worn if there's backlash in 3rd and 4th resulting in the gearstick moving backwards and forward on the overrun/power on. It seems to be worse in 3rd. Also it's worse with overdrive engaged. If it's there with the overdrive disengaged could it still be the overdrive? ie. locknut on the end of the input gear loose. I was going to take the overdrive off and see if the backlash was still present but thought I'd ask the question first.
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Ian

1961 Series 2 SWB 2.25 Petrol " "
1981 Series 3 SWB 2.25 Petrol "Gun"

5988 · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject:

is the main shaft nut tight, if not it allows the whole main shaft, and therefore the gear stick to move

this sort of end float in the OD wont be passed back to the main box

climbingchris · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject:

I think it's unlikely to be the mainshaft moving back and forth, as it's quite a tight fit in the centre bearing (between main and transfer box) and it'd have to crush 1st gear along with its selector to do it, as the mainshaft isn't free to slide through them, and they are up against the rear of the gearbox.

I'd say it's most likely the bush that 3rd and 2nd gears sit on, (you can see it in the first pic in the thread I linked to ^^^ between 3rd and 2nd gears) combined with a bit of wear on the syncro of the 3rd 4th syncro cluster, or possibly just weak detent springs on the 3rd 4th syncro unit.
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www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php

LAST FEW FORUM STICKERS STILL AVAILABLE - Vinny has them - All Gone

mountain goat · Low Box Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 48

Your 3rd/4th syncro hub detent springs will be bent broken and detacthed.I have in the past fitted new ones insitue through the top of the box with the selectors removed but the patience required is emense and if you are sorting the clutch go the whole way and fix the box whilst its out other problems will be discovered anyway.New bearings and seals are a must and inspect the gears for wear carefully.Series 3 suffix D boxs 2nd gear is best and can be retro fit.

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Hi, I have decided to have ago myself, and do the clutch and try and replace
the syncro springs. I am a bit worried about going in through the top of the gearbox as I am not sure about the selectors. If I move the gearbox back
but not take it out, is it possible to roll the box over and get in some other way. If not I will bite the bullet and go in through the top.
Any thoughts? Thanks for all you help, Jeff

climbingchris · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject:

if you're disconnecting the gearbox and moving it enough to do the clutch you'll find it easier with it out of the truck (cross members get in the way of shifting it back any great distance). They're not that heavy, get a friend round to help you move it.
and once it's out take the bell housing off and then you can replace the detent springs with it sat on the bench.

I know it sounds scarey to take a gearbox apart but once you see inside, it makes sense and isn't really very complicated at all.

PS you have to remove the selectors to get to the 3rd/4th syncro, there's no other way. put the box in 3rd and they all slide out quite easily. If you have to force them somethign is wrong and you need to stop and think for a while.
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Phil Gregson; the 5th Emergency Service et La Gayer de tout Les Gayeurs.

www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php

LAST FEW FORUM STICKERS STILL AVAILABLE - Vinny has them - All Gone

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Thank you, once again Chris, OK I will give it a go. Just got the military
show at Brooklands on the 15th, then I will make a start.
Sorry just one more question, has any one ever put in a Britpart clutch.
How long would that last?
Thanks again, Jeff

SANDMAN · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:01 am Post subject:

Hi Jeff
I see your spellings not to hot as you have put a "Br" where it should be "sh"
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The Bouncin' Brewer · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject:

Britpart clutch fitted in Tubs. Lasted about 18 months before it failed. The splined bit in the middle detached itself so it got binned.
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Now a totally hetero line up

bigblue · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:

for the difference in price between a br/sh itpart and a quality make it,s not really worth all the hassle of taking the gearbox out in 12-18months, cos lets face it it,s not a ten minute job is it. even if youve got a removable gearbox crossmember, which is the way forward.
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mountain goat · Low Box Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 48

If you pull the bell housing off or strip the box take note as to which way round the 3rd/4th syncro hub goes on the mainshaft.There is a recess on one side of the spline collar to clear th snap ring on 3rd gear on the mainshaft.If you get it wrong it will come out of top gear on overrun so beware its easy done if you dont know.Fit a good quality clutch --itpart may supplie Genuine Valeo components as well as cheaper options.

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Thanks once again everyone, so shitpart it won't be. Why is it that everything they make is crap, do they not have any controls on the quality.
If I had a company with such bad comments I would do something about it.
Thank you once again for all your helpful comments, Jeff

5988 · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:06 am Post subject:

bugger...Ive got a britpart clutch in my 88 with tuned engine ...better be preparing for a clutch change soon (its been in a year ....)-only because it was all i could get between Christmas and new year

mountain goat · Low Box Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Posts: 48

Britpart /bearmach /allmakes and others are all competing against each other for our costum.so price dictates quality (its got to be cheap cheap and cheaper) with that the parts get poorer and poorer as a consiquence.
Just try pricing up a full set off genuine hoses for a freelander 1.8 petrol for instance the 2 heater hoses alone are £70 plus.

climbingchris · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject:

when you swap the clutch change the release bearing too. I'd recommend getting a genuine parts one, they're still available (same as the early range rover ones with teh 4 speed box) I once put a non oem one in and the bearing melted itself into the carrier, resulting in the gearbox coming back out again after a very short time.
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Phil Gregson; the 5th Emergency Service et La Gayer de tout Les Gayeurs.

www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php

LAST FEW FORUM STICKERS STILL AVAILABLE - Vinny has them - All Gone

SANDMAN · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject:

Same thing happened to me
sat in traffic & the truck started creeping forward
Thought it was master or slave cylinder gone so pumped the pedal a couple of times then it went solid as the slave cylinder reached the end of its travel!
Hello! is that the AA, Its broke can you fetch me home?
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outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Sorry just another quick question. Is it possible to get the syncro hub
off the shaft without taking the transfer box off.
Thanks, Jeff

climbingchris · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:33 am Post subject:

no need to seperate the two boxes, you dont even need to open the transfer box up.
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Phil Gregson; the 5th Emergency Service et La Gayer de tout Les Gayeurs.

www.themorgans.info/expedition/index.php

LAST FEW FORUM STICKERS STILL AVAILABLE - Vinny has them - All Gone

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

Thanks Chris

outbound · Low Box Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 78 Location: Shepperton

There's a series syncro hub on ebay at the moment. As I won't be doing
the gearbox for another couple of weeks I don't want to lose it. It is for a D series gearbox and I am not sure what I have got. My LR is a 1981 88
ex Army. Any idea what type of gearbox was used around that time.
Best regards, Jeff

bigblue · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject:

now that depends if the army ever played with it, the only sure way is to look on the box or if your really lucky someone put D suffix parts in an A suffix box just like they have in mine. Confused

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loosely based on a SIIA 109 with 200tdi 3.54:1 diffs now with 3" front drum brakes.
member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club